Forgiveness is one thing. Reparations, another. Justice, a third—none subordinate to the others.
Forgiveness is personal; it cannot be prescribed at the civic level. Reparations are material; they address measurable harm. Justice is structural; it establishes accountability.
Conflating them risks diluting all three. A nation cannot “forgive” its way out of obligations it has yet to meet. Nor can it substitute sentiment for redress.
If there is to be renewal, it must rest not on grace alone, but on a clear sequence: accountability, repair, and only then—if it comes at all—forgiveness.
Sometimes forgiveness springs up first in the heart, like a tiny seedling after a forest fire. Martin Luther King didn't wait until after reparations to forgive.
Not finding any justice in the world, he created justice in his heart, by treating others with justice, to demonstrate how it works.
This second Trump administration has been too corrupt, too sordid, too incompetent and too vindictive for me to have a Kumbaya moment for the people who elected him. I just want to be able to correct the sheer injustices of the past year and I could care less if those people are happy or not. Or if they understand at all what their vote has foisted on this country. Many of them are deliberately stupid despite every bit of contrary evidence presented to them. I just want them to stay out of the way as we repair the damage caused by this calamitous administration.
I do understand and appreciate your message. Even not being a citizen to the USA I am furious about this Trump regime since he and his MAGA cult has killed many thousands to millions of people by defunding USAID, by not supporting Ukraine, by not supporting the Palestine people, by bombing Iranian people and instructing them to uprise against an still intact evil regime, by undercutting international organizations that are trying to rule the world in honest ways. I loath this MAGA people, but, as Elliot Kirschner writes, they are part of the human race and everybody deserves a second chance. Like Robert Venafro argued, there must be a clear sequence of accountability, repair and reconciliation. And at all times people should be treated with respect for their being during being holding accountable and being serving justice and behind bars. Even during the first two sequences individualized understanding of defendants should be possible. Feelings of revenge should be suppressed.
I think about this alot, Elliot. Just as democracy requires good listening and the willingness to take a risk and grow your point of view into a (perhaps) different form, forgiveness requires an openness that cannot happen without healing. When people are deeply angry or deeply hurt they are not open; they are closed and judgemental. They are protecting themselves. The hurt amplifies the hurt. If we as a society can unwind this spiral very gently and with real compassion, healing can begin to lead to the openness we all need and hope for. I appreciate that your cell-mates understand this is a two-way process: forgiveness of the other, and forgiveness of one's own self.
Such an excellent article, I look forward to seeing the film! I think that forgiveness is such a complicated subject. In the Old Testament it's God's forgiveness of human beings that gets the greatest attention (tellingly, after God's retribution for human error) but the message that we too are supposed to forgive as God often gets lost. Joseph forgave his brothers, Jacob forgave Esau. God didn't kill Cain, he sent him out to a place where he could start over again. But what we remember about that passage is the so-called "mark of Cain" which humans took as a justification for racism
It seems to me that, overwhelmingly, the message that is trumpeted nowadays is still one of right of ownership, right of dominance because of history, because of might, and, sadly, because of scripture. Too many people take the punishing, narrow views of certain passages and events in the Old Testament as justification for how to behave now. As well, in the New Testament many Christians focus on a Messiah who, although he died forgiving all, will return as an avenger, wreaking violence on those who don't believe in the approved way. We cannot seem to rest in forgiveness, there has to be a "but...." that always follows.
I don't profess to know a lot about Islam but from what I have read about Muhammad's original teachings vs what has evolved in Islam, it would seem that the extreme followers of Islam have also found a way to twist their scriptures to suit their purposes when it comes to ownership and domination. Muhammad taught, as did the other two religions that descended from Abraham: "Forgive others and Allah will forgive you". He emphasized a kind of "don't let the sun go down on your anger" although, granted, as with the Old Testament, there is an element of conquering there too. In the New Testament it seems to me it's what came AFTER the death of Jesus, the so-called "Church Fathers" that has created so much exclusivity and mistrust.
I guess with all humans, it seems to hinge on hubris: do we think we need forgiveness? If we don't think WE need forgiveness, that might be the place to start.
To those in the “I Don’t Vote” party, I say if you don’t vote, you have no standing to complain about what happens afterwards. There actually is a participation prize: a truly functioning democracy that lifts everyone.
Please keep in mind I am Canadian as you read my comment. Before we dismiss the voices of those who didn't vote, it's worth asking why they didn't.
Many non-voters aren't apathetic — they're exhausted. They're working two or three jobs just to keep the lights on and food on the table. Their kids go to school hungry, practice shooter drills instead of fire drills, and come home to a parent who has already left for a second shift. They don't have health insurance. They're one missed paycheck away from losing their housing.
When you're in survival mode, voting can feel like a luxury — not because you don't care, but because the system has never visibly cared about you. It's hard to believe a ballot will change anything when nothing ever seems to change.
This is the reality for millions of people in the wealthiest nation on earth — a country with one of the most dramatic income gaps in the developed world. I am apoplectic when anyone, anywhere in the world, thinks that giving a helping hand to someone else takes anything away from them. It lifts us all up. Sorry Elizabeth for the rant. You raise an important point.
Good points, Alice, but I have one adult child who supports the orange menace and one who ignores her ballot when it arrives because she has been disenfranchised by 1) oligarchs; 2) misogyny in the workplace; 3) a soured economy, and 4) the pandemic. I don’t know what to say to either of them anymore. My newest goal at almost 77 is to outlive the monster in the WH and see a rebirth of our democracy that is towards “a more perfect union.”
Good you have reminded me of this explanation. I did not properly realize these situations. They should be avoided by proper government. That’s why the government must take care of dividing the cake properly!
Thank you for laying out the reality that voting is just a process every four years where we choose which spokesperson who will be the interface between ourselves and the corporations and elites running our world.
I've almost never had a person or party I wanted to vote for on a ballot. I vote anyways, for the underdog or dissenting voice, to encourage them, and build a case for proportional representation.
I do love the experience of voting. I'm grateful not to live in Russia or China. Here in Canada, it brings out the best in citizens. But all we get is "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
There are opportunities though. The Democrats need to get control of the House and Senate back. And the latest New York Mayoral candidate, and people like AOC, are helpful. Here is AOC in her own words on how she won her first election. She appealed to people who never vote, and they were easily enough to win the day.
To rebuild our nation will take forgiveness in some form of those taken in by the cult of Trump. We have to keep our own humanity and do better than what they have projected onto us and others. Forgiveness is also not a free pass. It’s seeing more in our future than the past. Accountability is critical but we can come out of this stronger than before.
Your topic today, mirrors my meditations for the past several months. I’m coming to think that the issue is not “forgiveness” at all (though forgiveness is part of the equation), but rather an issue of permission and trust. The actor needing forgiveness and amending their lives accordingly must be allowed the possibility and belief in change by their peers. Otherwise they remain in a loop (however “forgiven” they are) of always being deficient in their own eyes as well as others. A single incident can mark one for a lifetime of marginalization. Most of us do not trust the emergence of a new creation arising from an historical progression of misdeeds.
I think that rebuilding the relationship is key, and it starts with self-examination. It has been so easy in anger to toss a friendship away, especially when I have been rubbing elbows with more likeminded people. I knew that if there was to be a reconciliation, it had to begin with an olive branch. Not everyone has been ready for that, and I can wait.
This is a difficult issue, and at this point in time—in the midst of an unfolding conflict between the government and the opposition—it is almost impossible to take a stance on it.
History teaches us that forgiveness is possible, perhaps even the only way to create a better future.
But that question does not arise at the moment.
At the moment, the USA is a divided country under a criminal president who ignores the Constitution and acts contrary to it, who ignores law and order and breaks all the rules, who ignores international law and deliberately violates it, and who couldn’t care less about human rights.
Under these circumstances, “forgiveness” is not a priority. Instead, questions arise. How is it that incarcerated people, many of whom clearly possess higher moral standards than the madman in the White House, must humbly beg for a second chance?
An estimated four million people in the USA are currently disenfranchised due to a criminal conviction. Less than 29% of them are still in prison. The rest—more than 71%—are on probation or have already served their full sentences. Four million!
But the madman in the White House is allowed to vote? A repeat offender whom we know from the Epstein Files is no stranger to murder?
"He said that none of us should be judged solely on the basis of our worst moments. That he has tried to make amends with those he has hurt. That moving forward—as all these young men hope to do when they get out—requires forgiving others and forgiving oneself."
I’d much rather see the man who said that in the White House. At least he has insight and good intentions.
Trump, on the other hand, has never tried to apologize to those he has hurt. E. Jean Carroll, for example, is still waiting for compensation for the injustice she suffered, which Trump was ordered by a court to pay.
Forgiveness is a beautiful thing, and it certainly appeals to the desire for harmony felt by many people in the USA. But on the path to JUSTICE FOR ALL, it is more of an obstacle.
I can’t help thinking of the recent interview with a three time Trump voter at the gas pumps stating her regret at voting for him. On one hand, I think how could the impeachments, Jan 6, the conviction for sexual abuse, (you name it!) not have affected her, but the war and price of gas did? On the other hand, anyone who is willing to see the light? I‘ll take it!
Forgiveness is one thing. Reparations, another. Justice, a third—none subordinate to the others.
Forgiveness is personal; it cannot be prescribed at the civic level. Reparations are material; they address measurable harm. Justice is structural; it establishes accountability.
Conflating them risks diluting all three. A nation cannot “forgive” its way out of obligations it has yet to meet. Nor can it substitute sentiment for redress.
If there is to be renewal, it must rest not on grace alone, but on a clear sequence: accountability, repair, and only then—if it comes at all—forgiveness.
Sometimes forgiveness springs up first in the heart, like a tiny seedling after a forest fire. Martin Luther King didn't wait until after reparations to forgive.
Not finding any justice in the world, he created justice in his heart, by treating others with justice, to demonstrate how it works.
Wow! Thank you for your clarification!
Well said.
This second Trump administration has been too corrupt, too sordid, too incompetent and too vindictive for me to have a Kumbaya moment for the people who elected him. I just want to be able to correct the sheer injustices of the past year and I could care less if those people are happy or not. Or if they understand at all what their vote has foisted on this country. Many of them are deliberately stupid despite every bit of contrary evidence presented to them. I just want them to stay out of the way as we repair the damage caused by this calamitous administration.
I do understand and appreciate your message. Even not being a citizen to the USA I am furious about this Trump regime since he and his MAGA cult has killed many thousands to millions of people by defunding USAID, by not supporting Ukraine, by not supporting the Palestine people, by bombing Iranian people and instructing them to uprise against an still intact evil regime, by undercutting international organizations that are trying to rule the world in honest ways. I loath this MAGA people, but, as Elliot Kirschner writes, they are part of the human race and everybody deserves a second chance. Like Robert Venafro argued, there must be a clear sequence of accountability, repair and reconciliation. And at all times people should be treated with respect for their being during being holding accountable and being serving justice and behind bars. Even during the first two sequences individualized understanding of defendants should be possible. Feelings of revenge should be suppressed.
I think about this alot, Elliot. Just as democracy requires good listening and the willingness to take a risk and grow your point of view into a (perhaps) different form, forgiveness requires an openness that cannot happen without healing. When people are deeply angry or deeply hurt they are not open; they are closed and judgemental. They are protecting themselves. The hurt amplifies the hurt. If we as a society can unwind this spiral very gently and with real compassion, healing can begin to lead to the openness we all need and hope for. I appreciate that your cell-mates understand this is a two-way process: forgiveness of the other, and forgiveness of one's own self.
Such an excellent article, I look forward to seeing the film! I think that forgiveness is such a complicated subject. In the Old Testament it's God's forgiveness of human beings that gets the greatest attention (tellingly, after God's retribution for human error) but the message that we too are supposed to forgive as God often gets lost. Joseph forgave his brothers, Jacob forgave Esau. God didn't kill Cain, he sent him out to a place where he could start over again. But what we remember about that passage is the so-called "mark of Cain" which humans took as a justification for racism
It seems to me that, overwhelmingly, the message that is trumpeted nowadays is still one of right of ownership, right of dominance because of history, because of might, and, sadly, because of scripture. Too many people take the punishing, narrow views of certain passages and events in the Old Testament as justification for how to behave now. As well, in the New Testament many Christians focus on a Messiah who, although he died forgiving all, will return as an avenger, wreaking violence on those who don't believe in the approved way. We cannot seem to rest in forgiveness, there has to be a "but...." that always follows.
I don't profess to know a lot about Islam but from what I have read about Muhammad's original teachings vs what has evolved in Islam, it would seem that the extreme followers of Islam have also found a way to twist their scriptures to suit their purposes when it comes to ownership and domination. Muhammad taught, as did the other two religions that descended from Abraham: "Forgive others and Allah will forgive you". He emphasized a kind of "don't let the sun go down on your anger" although, granted, as with the Old Testament, there is an element of conquering there too. In the New Testament it seems to me it's what came AFTER the death of Jesus, the so-called "Church Fathers" that has created so much exclusivity and mistrust.
I guess with all humans, it seems to hinge on hubris: do we think we need forgiveness? If we don't think WE need forgiveness, that might be the place to start.
To those in the “I Don’t Vote” party, I say if you don’t vote, you have no standing to complain about what happens afterwards. There actually is a participation prize: a truly functioning democracy that lifts everyone.
Please keep in mind I am Canadian as you read my comment. Before we dismiss the voices of those who didn't vote, it's worth asking why they didn't.
Many non-voters aren't apathetic — they're exhausted. They're working two or three jobs just to keep the lights on and food on the table. Their kids go to school hungry, practice shooter drills instead of fire drills, and come home to a parent who has already left for a second shift. They don't have health insurance. They're one missed paycheck away from losing their housing.
When you're in survival mode, voting can feel like a luxury — not because you don't care, but because the system has never visibly cared about you. It's hard to believe a ballot will change anything when nothing ever seems to change.
This is the reality for millions of people in the wealthiest nation on earth — a country with one of the most dramatic income gaps in the developed world. I am apoplectic when anyone, anywhere in the world, thinks that giving a helping hand to someone else takes anything away from them. It lifts us all up. Sorry Elizabeth for the rant. You raise an important point.
Good points, Alice, but I have one adult child who supports the orange menace and one who ignores her ballot when it arrives because she has been disenfranchised by 1) oligarchs; 2) misogyny in the workplace; 3) a soured economy, and 4) the pandemic. I don’t know what to say to either of them anymore. My newest goal at almost 77 is to outlive the monster in the WH and see a rebirth of our democracy that is towards “a more perfect union.”
Good you have reminded me of this explanation. I did not properly realize these situations. They should be avoided by proper government. That’s why the government must take care of dividing the cake properly!
Thank you for laying out the reality that voting is just a process every four years where we choose which spokesperson who will be the interface between ourselves and the corporations and elites running our world.
I've almost never had a person or party I wanted to vote for on a ballot. I vote anyways, for the underdog or dissenting voice, to encourage them, and build a case for proportional representation.
I do love the experience of voting. I'm grateful not to live in Russia or China. Here in Canada, it brings out the best in citizens. But all we get is "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
There are opportunities though. The Democrats need to get control of the House and Senate back. And the latest New York Mayoral candidate, and people like AOC, are helpful. Here is AOC in her own words on how she won her first election. She appealed to people who never vote, and they were easily enough to win the day.
https://jacobin.com/2018/07/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-interview-democratic-primary
But if you don't have an AOC on the ballot, why bother?
Maybe after you watch Elliot's movie you'll understand why so many people don't vote.
I’m looking forward to seeing it and learning from it.
A brave start to a challenging journey, and one that is often overlooked.
Your college thesis sounds interesting - would you consider providing access to it for your readers & anyone interested ?? Regards
Well done.
To rebuild our nation will take forgiveness in some form of those taken in by the cult of Trump. We have to keep our own humanity and do better than what they have projected onto us and others. Forgiveness is also not a free pass. It’s seeing more in our future than the past. Accountability is critical but we can come out of this stronger than before.
Your topic today, mirrors my meditations for the past several months. I’m coming to think that the issue is not “forgiveness” at all (though forgiveness is part of the equation), but rather an issue of permission and trust. The actor needing forgiveness and amending their lives accordingly must be allowed the possibility and belief in change by their peers. Otherwise they remain in a loop (however “forgiven” they are) of always being deficient in their own eyes as well as others. A single incident can mark one for a lifetime of marginalization. Most of us do not trust the emergence of a new creation arising from an historical progression of misdeeds.
Wonderful project. Solid. Bravo.
Can you confirm the name of the film and when it will come out
Thank you. The film and its title are very much both a work in progress. But it will come out early this fall. And I will update here frequently.
I think that rebuilding the relationship is key, and it starts with self-examination. It has been so easy in anger to toss a friendship away, especially when I have been rubbing elbows with more likeminded people. I knew that if there was to be a reconciliation, it had to begin with an olive branch. Not everyone has been ready for that, and I can wait.
This is a difficult issue, and at this point in time—in the midst of an unfolding conflict between the government and the opposition—it is almost impossible to take a stance on it.
History teaches us that forgiveness is possible, perhaps even the only way to create a better future.
But that question does not arise at the moment.
At the moment, the USA is a divided country under a criminal president who ignores the Constitution and acts contrary to it, who ignores law and order and breaks all the rules, who ignores international law and deliberately violates it, and who couldn’t care less about human rights.
Under these circumstances, “forgiveness” is not a priority. Instead, questions arise. How is it that incarcerated people, many of whom clearly possess higher moral standards than the madman in the White House, must humbly beg for a second chance?
An estimated four million people in the USA are currently disenfranchised due to a criminal conviction. Less than 29% of them are still in prison. The rest—more than 71%—are on probation or have already served their full sentences. Four million!
But the madman in the White House is allowed to vote? A repeat offender whom we know from the Epstein Files is no stranger to murder?
"He said that none of us should be judged solely on the basis of our worst moments. That he has tried to make amends with those he has hurt. That moving forward—as all these young men hope to do when they get out—requires forgiving others and forgiving oneself."
I’d much rather see the man who said that in the White House. At least he has insight and good intentions.
Trump, on the other hand, has never tried to apologize to those he has hurt. E. Jean Carroll, for example, is still waiting for compensation for the injustice she suffered, which Trump was ordered by a court to pay.
Forgiveness is a beautiful thing, and it certainly appeals to the desire for harmony felt by many people in the USA. But on the path to JUSTICE FOR ALL, it is more of an obstacle.
Well said! “This is not to say that forgiveness can serve as a facile substitute for responsibility”
Forgiveness is a worthy goal for us to struggle for. Thanks for the reminder.
I can’t help thinking of the recent interview with a three time Trump voter at the gas pumps stating her regret at voting for him. On one hand, I think how could the impeachments, Jan 6, the conviction for sexual abuse, (you name it!) not have affected her, but the war and price of gas did? On the other hand, anyone who is willing to see the light? I‘ll take it!
Thank you Elliot for this stunning piece. I’m a better person for knowing you.